The Canadian Globe and Mail has an article about the Dutch troops in Uruzgan (hat tip Sargasso) that really made my day. One quote, emphasis mine:
The Dutch went into Uruzgan expecting the same kind of bloody welcome that Canadians have found in Kandahar. (…) But the bloodbath never happened. This past week, the first four-month rotation of Dutch troops started to leave Uruzgan after having completed 400 patrols, established two forward bases and started the slow work of building roads, bridges, schools, and clinics — all without a single soldier killed in action, and just two injuries from hostile forces. (…) The success is fragile, Dutch commanders caution, and might be partly the result of luck, insurgents focusing on battles elsewhere or the cautious pace of their arrival. But the early results in Uruzgan also suggest that something these commanders call the “Dutch philosophy†is worth a hard look. It’s a strategy focused on supporting the local government rather than killing its supposed enemies, talking with the Taliban instead of fighting them, and treading carefully with an understanding of how little any foreigner knows about this untamed country.
Isn’t it beautiful, the simple concept of honestly trying to understand the country that you are supposed to reconstruct, the honesty of army commanders acknowledging that their success may simply be luck, the very idea that somewhere competent people are actually achieving something positive in an ocean of negative forces? Wow.
I was first planning to play down the information in this post with lots of caveats and links to all sorts of nasty things, like this one, and with references to Srebrenica etcetera, so as not to appear too naïve. And I am also sure our esteemed commenters will set me straight right away and add the necessary nuance. Today, however, I would like to ditch my personal cynicism for a moment and enjoy this bit of positive news “as isâ€.
The shows about Uruzgan on Dutch television don’t emit that rosy picture (at least not between the lines)
Dutch philosophy or just survivor bias?
There were similar reports from Iraq, but I forget the nationality of the troops, they may have been Dutch (but they were not American.) The commander made a rule: no dark shades, let people look you in the eye. Simple things like being civil etc.
It worked. But I don’t know if it still would,
I’ve found the report I read. yes it was the Dutch.
But there were also reports of abuse.
It works better. But it still doesn’t work as Iraqi’s still want high oil prices
There have been a lot of battles reported on in the Dutch media however, with the …interesting… detail that these report large numbers of “Taliban” killed, but never any wounded or prisoners; one wonders what happened to those…
They are killed by airweapons. Otherwise you don’t get zero killed on the Dutch side. With airweapons you don’t get prisoners and the number of death is a guess.
there really is a netherlands philosophy. the netherlanders are the world’s most logical people when it comes to dealing with actual human beings. they don’t react to others as they wish the other were or some imagined way that people SHOULD be…they relate to humanity on the ground.
here in the u.s. for too long we have let the radical christian right control society with their disapproval. a religious/utopian view that tries to force all to do as they think is right NOT what is actually going on with those people.
–
i hope the dutch people have a chance to exercise their logic when george bush, et al. go there before the world court in den haag.
My Friends in the New Zealand Army have returned from Afganistan and say the same thing.
They say the Yank soldiers are violent meat heads that just cause all sorts of drama, dressed up like imperial storm troopers and alway pointing guns at people. They say the fastest way to get killed is to be near American troops.
The kiwi troops wear cloth baseball hats instead of Helmets, can travel to villages in their area where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.
>>There were similar reports from Iraq, but I
>>forget the nationality of the troops, they
>>may have been Dutch (but they were not
>>American.)
I think it was the Dutch who provided perimiter protection for the Japanese in Samawa, although my memory may have failed here. It is there that the Japanese had to supply and protect a hospital which the Americans had ignored the needs of. They fixed up some schools and provided other humanitarian relief. In Samawa, as I remember from one report, citizens displayed some makeshift signs of thanks to the Japanese troops.
I was opposed to Japan breaking its constitution to do this, but in the end it seems she did her part to help in a situation that is hopelessly mired in arrogance.
Coulda used a few meatheads at Srebrenica.
“…talking with the Taliban instead of fighting them…”
Really? Come on, now. I’m no hawk but please, let’s get serious here. The above line reads like some right-wing parody of spineless liberals.
“My Friends in the New Zealand Army have returned from Afganistan and say the same thing.
They say the Yank soldiers are violent meat heads that just cause all sorts of drama, dressed up like imperial storm troopers and alway pointing guns at people. They say the fastest way to get killed is to be near American troops.
The kiwi troops wear cloth baseball hats instead of Helmets, can travel to villages in their area where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.”
Wow. Not surprised but still…
Soft hats, no sunglasses (eye contact), and be polite is essentially the UK rulebook for this kind of war. In Afghanistan this summer, we turned expecting that kind of war and found the old kind of war in full effect, and I’m afraid we’re losing touch a little.
There are three Dutch missions in Afghanistan:
1. F16s and Gunships. Under American (now: NATO) command, they kill “taliban” from the air.
2. ‘Commando’ troops, who are supporting, from 2004, ‘Enduring Freedom’,under American command. They are still around the Dutch reconstruction mission compound in Uruzgan, but in a separate camp, with American officers ’embedded’. They do the ‘dirty work’, terrorising the population.
3. The ‘reconstruction’ mission, 1.200 men and women, is practically locked up in their compound in Tarin Kowt. The commandos and their US officers do not want them around. All supplies have to come by air, for the road (to Kandahar) is not safe.
– It is not true, that the Dutch military don’t wear black sunglasses. A Dutch press photo of PM Balkenende’s visit (August 2006)in my blog “At Home in Europe” is proof: http://huibriethof.blogspot.com/2006/08/disputes-spur-his-critics-karzai-says.html
– During the Dutch ‘soft’ mission in the quiet Al-Muthanna province in Iraq (2003/2004), Dutch military intelligence tortured prisoners (revelations in the seriuous Dutch press, November 18, 2006). The same Dutch officers (who were not punished) now work in Afghanistan with the US intervention troops.
In my opinion, the article in the Canadian paper exaggerates the impact of the ‘Dutch philosophy’, so as to contrast the supposed Dutch behaviour with the Canadian one. Which is understandable, within the context of the growing opposition in that country against the bloody expedition the Canadian troops have found themselves in (in Helmand province).
Kiwi,
The New Zealanders operate in Bamiyan province. They do indeed wear soft caps and openly talk to the locals.
So do the Americans in nearby Panjshir province. How do I know this? I was just in both places. The Americans in Panjshir not only wear soft caps … but mostly (in defiance of uniform regulations) wear no caps at all.
Now, your friends made an even stronger claim, that they could “travel to villages where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.” That would be odd, since I’ve seen American troops travel freely all over Bamiyan province, where the New Zealanders are stationed. I must admit that I doubt the veracity of your friends’ stories. However, in fairness, since I may be wrong, I would very much like to know in which villages these alleged examples of hospitality towards Kiwis by devoted anti-Americans took place.
In point of fact, New Zealand received responsibility for the PRT in Bamiyan province because the local security situation was so good. The Americans similarly tried to pass responsibility for the Panjshir PRT off to another Coalition nation, but the local governor rejected the presence of any but American troops.
I know this because I recently had the opportunity to have lunch with the governor of Panjshir province.
Now, to be fair to your friends, the New Zealand soldiers operate out of Bagram, and Bagram is a strange place. First, it’s full of fobbits who do indeed have an exaggerated idea of the terrors awaiting them should they step outside the airfield. Second, the local PRT does indeed undertake (IMHO, rather exaggerated) force protection measures when they go outside the wire, although they were recently attacked in the Tagab Valley of Kapisa province. In that sense, I can certainly see how the New Zealanders might gain a distorted view of how Americans operate.
Of course, courtesy towards the Afghans is American policy, but doesn’t always translate. My friend Eduardo Coya (SPC, CTARNG) managed to get himself chewed out by General Eikenberry himself for driving too aggressively in Jalalabad. I’ll also admit that I have been in a up-armored vehicle in Jalalabad that was being driven extremely aggressively. Although I suspect that the fact that the driver was a New Zealander might introduce some irony.
As for the Dutch, I would be very interested to know more about their strategy in Uruzgan. (I may have to break down and pay for the Globe and Mail article.) The strategy discussed in the post sounds exactly like what I observed among American forces in Nangahar and Kunar provinces. I would tend to agree with Huib’s observations above.
I would caution everyone to be aware that the stereotype of the Coolly Efficient SuperBrit is, in fact, largely a stereotype. Which is not to say, of course, that American forces enforce the peace (or conduct counterinsurgency) particularly well. And it is certainly not to argue that Coalition peace enforcement and counterinsurgency strategy and tactics in Afghanistan could not be improved quite markedly on a number of different levels. It is simply to say that I am unsure which Western nation, if any, does it any better.
There is something like a Dutch philosophy I think. Look at our history. We were the first country who trade over the whole world. We are such a small country butt we are allways one of the most rememberal countrys in the world. Maybe it is about our liberal thoughts about many things. Indonesia was a few hundert years our territorium. The biggest Muslim country in the world ruled by one of the smallest. I can’t explain it exactly, but I think it is our open and liberal system that worked everytime, everywhere, anytime.
Before being all proud of the country I grew up in I would like to remind Mark that we, The Netherlands, did some unethical things in Indonesia, like have a war there because they wanted to be indipendend.
And would like to downplay the torture report in Iraq. I as many other dutch people value the fact that we live in a country where human rights are highly praised. And when there is only one sign of these rights being violated in our country or by our troops we (inlcuding me) are outraged and want clarification. The same with torture in iraq by us, the Dutch. But to make my point, If the torture scandal is true (its being investigated at this moment) it is not to be compared with the American torture which is in a far different class. Here we are talking about keeping people from sleeping and listing to very loud music, much like the conditions on g. bay, cuba. Wich we do all absolutely resent in holland.
About the dutch philosophy, its very simple. Don’t fight a problem you can’t win. Work the problem. You see it all around in Holland.
Don’t fight drugs, but regulate it.
Don’t fight the sexindustry, but regulate it,
Don’t try to put criminals away for live, but try to educate them to lead a normal live.
Don’t make alcohol forbidden for kids, let them drink from 16 years old let them crash their bikes a couple of times and then when there 18 and know the effects of alcohol make it legal to do a drivers test.
Same in afghanistan, to rebuild a nation you need the suport of all of the population, and since a large part of the population is connected to the taliban in some way, well is it not time to win their trust instead of trying to kill them all and never get the support you need to build this nation?
While the soft touch works in some situations, it doesn’t work with people who are out to destroy you. Foreign governments are always given the easy jobs, leaving the dirty work to Americans. Someone’s got to do it I suppose. There is a different mentality when under the stress of war, and not just sitting on the sidelines. Perhaps Americans are not the best pick, but no one else will do it. We learned our lesson by not getting into WWII sooner. Read the post by Noel Maurer, starts out “Kiwi” very enlightening.